Bench Press
240x4 (got a little bump from Mark on #5)
My elbow has been acting up recently (radial nerve in left arm again) so I cut out any significant extra bench volume, did 1 or 2 sets of easy triples at 225 then a few sets of light dumbbell press.
DB Rows
62x16
112x16
132x16
162x10 ( left grip would appear to be catching up)
112 x 34 (why? because I can)
core shit.
12/18
Squat
335x4
Elbow was a concern, but turned out not to be a major factor. My squat sucks right now. First/second rep always feels really good, but after that my hips start shooting up and turns the whole damn thing into a GM. I'm not entirely sure what's causing it...weak erectors? weak glutes? (it's sure as hell not a weak core) lack of discipline? Need to figure this out...and fast....
Pause Squats
225x5
255x5
275x3
315x1
Core shit.
Never
MP
0x0
Due to elbow acting up I'm gonna relax for a little while. It's just MP after all, and that's progressing just fine.
Postmortem
1) It's been 3 cycles, my DL and BP have progressed significantly and my squat has either remained stagnant or made minor progress.
2) With the target of being ready for the February 12th AAU meet, I'm going to stay on 5/3/1 for 2 more cycles, albeit (after discussing with Danny) at a higher intensity.
3) Next cycle I will make the normal 5 and 10 lb progressions but I will take 93% to calculate the training max instead of 90%. Depending on how this cycle goes I'll up that % to 95 or more for the following cycle, the idea being peaking right before the meet.
4) DL workouts will stay the same
5) Squat workouts will swap in box squats for pause squats. At this point, I need to build confidence in my sitback...I think I have a tendency to keep my weight significantly forward of center in the hole during pauses. Might throw these in for extra volume as well.
6) Bench workouts I'll swap out additional volume with DB presses to save wear and tear on my elbow.
7) MP workouts will stay the same.
When I started 5/3/1 in September I was 180 lbs at roughly 10% bf, now I'm 184 lbs at roughly 10% bf. So, physically the gains are exactly where I want them to be, 1 pound or so a month of mostly lean mass. Keeping in mind my longer term goals I'm not going to make any effort to get back into the 181 weight class for the February 12th meet, I'll just do my best as a very light 198.
And here is the plan for the next cycle, to be started next mondayish....(I'd start it sooner, but this whole holiday crap wreaks havoc with gym hours...maybe next year we'll do Christmas with Louie or Ed...) Yes, Danny, I'm stealing your jokes now.
Oh, and in the general spirit of the holidays, I leave you with an obligatory Euro-Death Metal clip:
| Week 1 | Week 2 | Week 3 | |||
| Military | Military | Military | |||
| 180 | |||||
| Reps | Reps | Reps | |||
| 5 | 110 | 3 | 120 | 5 | 130 |
| 5 | 130 | 3 | 135 | 3 | 145 |
| 5 | 145 | 3 | 155 | 1 | 160 |
| Deadlift | Deadlift | Deadlift | |||
| 570 | |||||
| Reps | Reps | Reps | |||
| 5 | 345 | 3 | 375 | 5 | 400 |
| 5 | 400 | 3 | 425 | 3 | 455 |
| 5 | 455 | 3 | 480 | 1 | 505 |
| Bench | Bench | Bench | |||
| 285 | |||||
| Reps | Reps | Reps | |||
| 5 | 175 | 3 | 190 | 5 | 200 |
| 5 | 200 | 3 | 215 | 3 | 230 |
| 5 | 230 | 3 | 240 | 1 | 255 |
| Squat | Squat | Squat | |||
| 390 | |||||
| Reps | Reps | Reps | |||
| 5 | 240 | 3 | 255 | 5 | 275 |
| 5 | 275 | 3 | 295 | 3 | 310 |
| 5 | 310 | 3 | 330 | 1 | 345 |
Some random thoughts, for what it's worth.
ReplyDelete1. One reason that a technical breakdown happens that that your body is shifting weight from weak to strong muscle groups. Given that, I think that GMing a squat is likely caused by weak quads or glutes. Given your (and my) deadlift/squat ratio, I really doubt it's weak erectors or hamstrings. I'd love to be able to cite an article, but I can't off the top of my head. Too bad.
2. I'm not so sure that you want to sit back very far when raw squatting. You need to keep the bar above the middle of your feet while maintaining a fairly upright torso (so you're not doing a good morning). While there's quite a bit of variation from lifter to lifter, for one person, I think the number of feasible stances is not so many. Since you record yourself, though, this should be easy to see.
3. You should have moved up to 198 a long time ago. You're 4" taller than me, and I run pretty lean for a 181.
Thanks Frank, just a couple of clarifications:
ReplyDeleteRe: 2. I'm not necessarily implementing box squats to increase my sit back, more to build confidence in it, as I definitely cheat forward at the bottom of pause squats, which I think has led to a suboptimal pattern of descent in my regular squats.
Re: 3. The move was inevitable, but I'm waaay behind you as far as physical development. If I were to replicate your build on my frame (which is more or less the end goal) I'd probably end up close to 200 lbs. It's not worth it to me to get fat, I want to be able to implement the strength I have via good conditioning and mobility, so 1 lb per month it is...which is perfectly fine. No one else on this blog who's implemented the sheer bulk approach can really say they've progressed any faster than I have.
I don't know if anyone has ever told you this, so I'll go ahead and do it.
ReplyDeleteYour deadlift is kicking ass, but your squat and bench aren't progressing nearly as fast. If your goal is powerlifting, then you would benefit from re-architecting your program to focus on squat and bench to get them to catch up. Sometimes all this means is bringing the mental intensity and focus to those exercises, and the program itself doesn't change much at all. Usually some minor tweaks are needed, however. For example:
- Move squat and bench to the first slot in workouts, or earlier in the week when you are more rested.
- Focus more assistance work on the weak points in these lifts, cut down on deadlift assistance.
This falls under the umbrella of weak point training. From a competitive sense, your squat and bench are your weak points.
My $.02.
Also, I see no problem with staying 181 so long as you aren't hampering your lean mass gains in order to stay there.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Frank on the weak quads/glutes causing the GMing. Quads are pretty much responsible for keeping you upright during squats. I have sort of the same problem, which is why I started doing front squats.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think I've made a large amount of progress eating lots of food. I remember maxing my deadlift at 405lbs in January, not really lifting that spring term, and coming back to pling in the summer to pull and squat my 495 and 405 respectively. Since then I've put on about 20lbs. All that in addition to the stress of a hard summer and a term. I think food helps.
@Nate, yea, I buy all that. Except for one minor detail...my bench will always suck relative to my other lifts. The way I measure "good" progress for bench is ANY type of progress that is sustained over a long period of time. Since my bench hasn't stalled since before the first meet, I'm happy.
ReplyDelete@Aaron. Yes, but I'd venture to say that probably 15 lbs of that is fat. Since last January, I've put on 15 lbs 90% of which has been muscle. Don't believe me? Go back and look at the videos. That kid is scrawny...this one is still anorexic by Danny's standards but very much on his way to being a lean and powerful 198.
@Shanker's @Nate: I think you should stop making excuses for your weak squat and bench. If you want to get good at, well, anything, you have be willing to work your weaknesses. Imagine applying this thought process to deadlifting. "Well, I'll always be weak around the knees, so I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and be happy with any progress at all." No. Do what you normally do and problem solve the hell out of whatever's hampering your progress on your bench. This is not to say that you shouldn't be happy with progress over the long run, but based on what Nate (and I) have apparently seen, and based on your current lifts, your deadlift is only really outstripping your other lifts because of the among of focus and passion you bring to it.
ReplyDelete@Aaron/Shanker: You guys aren't disagreeing at all, really. The trade-off is between slower, leaner gains, which requires more patience and discipline, vs. faster, less lean gains. Stage of development also matters. Which one you decide to do is really a matter of preference and temperament. And before we start yelping about one side vs. the other, it's really a continuum whose optimal range is, as Danny says, broad, but bounded.
@Frank I benched 230 at the june Meet and pulled 485. I can hit 480x5 and 240x4. The progress here is virtually identical. It's not an excuse, its a fact, I am built for deadlifting. I am 5'11 with a 74.5 inch wingspan... As for my squat no one's making any excuses, I know what I need to do.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the past 4 months has been the fastest my bench has progressed ever...including newbie gains. So why in the world would I consider it a problem area and try to change things? What I'm doing is WORKING. Go back and look.
ReplyDeleteWhat helps me in deadlifting, simultaneously hurts my bench. That's all I was saying. You of all people know this better than everyone. The question here is are you basing your comment based on what I've actually been doing or Nate's comment. In addition, with bench press what I've said is perfectly true. If you add 2.5 lbs to your bench every month then that's 30 lbs over the course of 1 year, which is perfectly acceptable progress. In my case, my progress is close something like 30-40 lbs in 6 months, you do the math.
ReplyDeleteNo, it's how you reacted to Nate's generally true observation. Still, if you think you're making good progress, then more power to you.
ReplyDeletecareful with reading between the lines...particularly on this blog. But look, the numbers never lie, always know the numbers before you try to judge something.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter what I think, the progress is there, just look t the numbers.
I thought I sucked at bench too. Watching Justin bench all this time made me realize I didn't want to lag behind the big benchers anymore. That mindset pretty much helped my bench increase. I focused a bit more on it, cared for it a little more, I stopped thinking I would suck at it forever, and now (though I haven't tested it) I have around at a 275lb bench (TNG). Its not exceptional, but at least its respectable. The point is that happened because I changed my mind and decided my bench wasn't going to suck anymore.
ReplyDeleteI actually think its really exceptional that your bench increased on 5/3/1, I was expecting the opposite.
@Shanker: Oy, I guess I should have said up front that you are making fantastic progress, and you are. I just didn't want to see you hamstringing yourself because you don't think you're capable of big benches. I mean, KK is clealry built for deadlifting and can still bench what, 550+? A genetic freak, surely, but odd body proportions are hardly the end all, be all.
ReplyDelete@Aaron: That's pretty much what I had in mind. You were the next person I was going to nag :).
Benching will do what it does...I mean, its common to sense to realize that a 30 lb gain in bench is equivalent to a 30 lb gain squat when calculating a total. But, whereas that 30 lbs on bench could take months or even years to get, the same increase in any of the other lifts can be done in a matter of weeks and months. My personal overall philosophy with regard to bench is very much in this same vein. If it goes up good, but its simply not worth stressing over relative to the other lifts which are far more important to my total. This is not to say that I don't think I'm capable of a big bench, its that I really don't care. If I put 3 lbs on my bench per month over the next year I'll have a 315+ bench, which last year I never thought was even possible. My comments are reflective of the nature of the lift relative to the others rather than what I think my capabilities are.
ReplyDelete@Shanker: I think you need to do a little less reading between the lines. At least in my case, I always mean exactly what I say. Except when I'm obviously pushing people's buttons. There is less drama than you think.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I used to feel as apathetic about my bench as you do. Deadlifting was fun, I was good at it, and my other lifts were getting stronger too. Why do anything different?
Then I started thinking about a total, and I did Sheiko. Deadlift barely moved at all, but my squat jumped by 75 lbs and bench by 30. And I was probably conservative the entire time choosing my weights. (I'm not saying you should Sheiko, I'm saying you should do something to focus on your weak points. Sheiko is good at training technique through repetition.)
You have a weak bench? Fuck that. Get a strong one.
I'm not saying it's easy or that it will even work. But that needs to be your attitude. Deadlifting is 'easy' in terms of technique; that's why beginners almost always get a big pull before anything else. But once you have progressed past beginner gains on the lifts, you need to start focusing on the technical lifts and figuring out the weak points.
Yes and I've done that. My bench form is as perfect as it's ever been. Mentality and attitude is a highly overrated measure of success. When I lift, I do my job and I do it right and I do not make compromises when it comes to a suboptimal form. I know where I need improvement and I have not nor will I ever delude myself into thinking otherwise. This is not "apathy" as much as it is, what I am doing is working so I'm not going to fuck with it. If my bench hadn't moved in 3 months then I would take that more seriously, but it has and it is constantly improving. I don't give a fuck how positive someone is or how invinceable someone feels, I'm making progress and that's all that counts.
ReplyDeleteA strong bench...yea I'll get one really soon doing what I'm doing right now. And I have every confidence in the world in that statement.
The other thing, and this is far more relevant to my squatting problem, is how does the "I have to get a strong squat" mentality help me if I don't know what's wrong?
ReplyDeleteTHAT's what I need to figure out first.
If you had reasons for switching to Sheiko that were logical, that's fine, and that's something I'll need to figure out. What will help most once I figure out what's wrong? But if you switched to Sheiko without knowing why it would help you, that's just naiive.
Im still reading your comments trying to figure out what tangible advice there is in there and I can't find any. If you have any of that I'd be happy to listen, but you can talk about mentality and attitude or shifting focus til youre blue in the face, but that doesn't help me once I'm under the bar.
I know there is a problem, figuring out what it is is next, followed by figuring out how to fix it. Go look back at the original post, I expressed exactly this sentiment.
Sometimes I wonder why we try to give you advice. But I will bite.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, attitude is not an end in itself, it is a means. The end is always to get stronger. But how you approach an exercise or a day in the gym makes a tangible difference in the outcome. If you are mentally engaged and focused then you _will_ lift better than otherwise. This is not feel-good bullshit - it is related to the firing of your nervous system, the amount of adrenaline in your system, etc.. But attitude affects all of this and it IS important. No serious lifter thinks otherwise. (The best frame of mind for lifting will vary from lifter to lifter, but all of them are the best way for that lifter to focus and bring maximum intensity to lift.)
That being said. Read my first comment. I wasn't talking about frame of mind -- I was talking about changing your program to focus on squat and bench. Sometimes, all that is needed is a change in approach to the lifts within a program without changing the program itself. This can mean saving the most mental energy for those lifts. Sometimes the program can be left mostly unchanged, but lifts are moved around to shift the focus within the program. Sometimes assistance exercises are changed, but the main structure of the program remains. And sometimes you want to change the whole thing.
There is a full spectrum of options, all based on how well the current plan is working and how much you want to shift your goals. I suggested modest changes since you seem happy with the overall progress.
Thus, bringing intensity to lifts and shifting focus has both programming and in-the-gym aspects. It is a supplement to solid programming; i.e., knowing what to do and why you are doing it. But it interacts with it as well to know when to do which lifts and which to focus on.
As for general attitude about different lifts... You said above: "This is not to say that I don't think I'm capable of a big bench, its that I really don't care." That is the wrong attitude to bring into any training session. I don't know if you were exaggerating for effect, but you can't expect that shit to slide.
As for why I did Sheiko, I could talk your ear off for half an hour about why I started it and how it met/exceeded/failed to meet my goals.
As for being naive -- do you really think you have perfected technique in all your lifts? Technique is a moving target, based on how strong you are, your leverages as weight changes, and so on. You will never perfect your technique. Heck, a random injury can force a change at any moment. It is a FACT that your progress over the past months -- big deadlift, lagging squat and bench -- is textbook beginner-to-intermediate (in some sense) gains. My suggestion to you is that you adopt a program that gives you more repetition in these lifts so that you can perfect the technique. Jim Wendler does not need as many reps, because he has squatted 1000 lbs and knows his lifts inside and out. You are not him.
You would help yourself if you were more receptive to constructive advice. You turn the simplest posts into confrontations for no reason. We are only trying to give you second opinions from an outside perspective, coming from years of lifting experience and training with some very knowledgeable, strong people. It's only a disservice to yourself to brush it off.
Great post Nate.
ReplyDeleteThis discussion has actually helped me a lot. I was personally having trouble progressing on 2 of my lifts, and I quietly decided that I just wasn't "into it" enough. After just refocusing my mental energy I've seen some pretty great gains. Instead of dreading (or at least not looking forward to) the days that focused those lifts - I got excited to make progress. Doing this helped me focus my energy when I was in the gym, and I've seen a real positive change from it. This was without any program change whatsoever.
I can't speak much about the restructuring aspect because I'm not experienced with this, however what you said makes a lot of sense to me.