Hello all.
Glad to see the blog is getting some activity again. I thought I would post in order to contribute and also to get advice about / log my new program.
So, I'm playing for MIT's ultimate team. I practice 3-4 times per week and generally I'd categorize this as "endurance sprinting." Basically long periods of running with lots of short bursts of sprinting. Think soccer.
As posted on here a few months ago I went back to starting strength while I got used to the practice schedule. I reset once in the middle. In general I found starting strength boring and sort of unmotivating (I mentally need cycles), but I know others have had good experiences with it. The beginners on the team have made great progress.
I read the 5/3/1 book and I like the concept, plus the workouts can be short. I think this is something I can really use even during the upcoming season.
I tested maxes in order to have a good starting point for 5/3/1. I didn't kill myself to hit huge numbers (esp on squat), I just wanted a benchmark. My maxes as of last week:
Weight: 162lbs
Squat: 265
Bench: 225
Deadlift: 405
Military: 125
Powerclean: 85kg
I'm going to run 5/3/1 four times per week. Days will depend on practice schedule. I'm using 90% of the above numbers as my first "training max" to calculate the rest of the program.
Sets look like this:
Week 1: 1x5, 1x5, 1x5+
Week 2: 1x3, 1x3, 1x3+
Week 3: 1x5, 1x3, 1x1+
Week 4: 3x5 (deload)
Weight looks like this:
Week 1: 65%, 75%, 85%
Week 2: 70%, 80%, 90%
Week 3: 85%, 90%, 95%
Week 4: 40%, 50%, 60%
Assistance exercises will be generally 5 sets of 10ish reps. I'm going to using powerclean as my "main lift" instead of military.
My days are probably going to be:
(1) Powerclean - military - snatch and/or front squat
(2) Deadlift - Good morning - Glute Ham Raise
(3) Bench - Dumbell row - Some tricep variation
(4) Squat - front squat and/or lunge - leg press
I did 2 workouts so far, I'll just super briefly log them here:
--12/17--
Bench: 130x5, 150x5, 170x10
Dumbell row: 45x5x10
Dumbell incline: 45x5x8
Dips: 5x10
--12/18--
Squat: 150x5, 170x5, 195x8
Legpress: 90x10, 140x10, 180x10, 230x10, 230x10
I know a few of you guys have run 5/3/1 before, so if you have any advice I would definitely appreciate it.
Monday, December 19, 2011
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5/3/1 was not nearly enough volume for me on bench. I prefer 5x5, or 8x2 for bench.
ReplyDeleteI'm also not sure it would work well for me for olympic lifts. I prefer 6x2 for olympic lifts.
5/3/1 feels right for me for squats and deadlifts.
I split the four days as follows: OHP/Squat/Bench/DL.
ReplyDeleteWhat (I liked to do | would imagine would work fine) to get bonus pressing in was to:
-Bench on OHP day, 5/3/1 reps for that week without pushing the last set
-Either OHP or more bench on bench day.
My squat maintained/went up a slight bit by dropping the BBB squat work and doing either speed squats/pause squats.
I programmed 5/3/1 rather terribly but I'd be happy to tell you more if you want.
Interesting, I guess I hadn't thought of doing Bench/Bench variation on OHP day. I should definitely consider that since I was actually a bit worried about the lack of pressing volume and I didn't want to do BBB because it seemed... well... boring. Duh. Definitely interested in the rest of your "terrible" program, though. I'll take all the info I can get.
ReplyDeleteI was also really on the edge for subbing Military w/ PC. I considered keeping PC an assistance lift, but the ultimate coach has been running 5/3/1 with PC as a main lift and he seemed all about it.
I think 5/3/1 as an overall program is fine, and you're pretty much doing it by the book as far as I can tell with the exception of the military press/power clean substitution.
ReplyDeleteNow about that substitution...
The way that I usually think about substituting exercises is to replace like with like. That is, I am willing to replace an upper body press (bench) with another upper body press (military press) or a lower body press (squat) with another lower body press (front squat). In your case, you're replacing an upper body press with a lower body/full body pull. Another way to look at it is that you have 3 out of 4 days where you hammer the lower body hard with cleans, deadlifts, and squats. I don't think that's ideal.
I also agree with Garrett in that I am not a fan of doing high rep Olympic lifts. Your form is going to be terrible, which will either defeat the purpose of doing them in the first place or lead to injury if you're using any sort of decent weight. The only time I would use high rep Olympic lifts would be in some sort of complex for conditioning.
If you still want to do cleans, I would suggest replacing good mornings on deadlift day or front squats on squat days (or both) with some power clean singles, doubles, or triples. I would also move them toward the start of the session so it would be:
Power Clean, Deadlift, GHR
Power Clean, Squat, Leg Press
Explosive movements > full body/heavy compound movements > assistance stuff.
Ok that actually makes a lot of sense to me. I think I had this idea after reading the book that "assistance" exercises should all be sets of 10, and I definitely didn't want to do Power Clean sets of 10, so I thought this would work better.
ReplyDeleteYour reasoning makes a lot more sense. My original thought is to move it to deadlift day and do sets doubles or triples, per Garrett's advice.
This has been super helpful. If there's anyone else out there with any thoughts feel free to shout them in my direction.
If you're only getting 8 reps in the first week of your squat workout I would seriously consider dropping your training max. This doesn't give you much room to grow. At this point it really doesn't look like your priority is pure strength, so keep things light and give yourself plenty of cushion. With the types of activities that you're doing in addition to lifting I would view this in the context of making progress over a period of 3-4 months and several cycles.
ReplyDeleteAlso eat.
Seriously, you're a twig and you're burning a fuckton of calories if you play frisbee or lift nearly every day of the week. The point isn't to get you bigger or anything, it's simply so you can sustain your level of activity and make a little progress. And I know you, you're not eating enough. What you do in the gym is only half the battle.
Well the 8 reps was just because I was hurrying through all of my sets (starting lifting w/ 30 minutes to go) and didn't want to overdo it. Wendler says in the book its ok to not go crazy on the last set so I just cut it off.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, you're exactly right. I'm interested in maintaining / slow progress. I'd LOVE to gain weight and I try to do everything I can. Eating enough feels like a 2nd job for me, but you're right.. I can do way better. I need to become more efficient at eating a lot calories. Do you have any suggestions? My day is so packed full of work and lifting/working out/practice already that it's just difficult to fit in enough meals.
Pediasure or ensure before and after every workout in addition to what you eat on a daily basis. That's an additional 500-700 calories per day. It's also delicious.
ReplyDeleteIn your case I really wouldn't worry about any sort of caloric ceiling, since I don't think I've ever seen you with more than single digits of body fat. Ensure and pediasure are balanced nutritional supplements, so if you can, use them at will in addition to (but not instead of) what you usually eat on a daily basis. It's quick and its loaded with calories.
You should talk to your doctor about your problems gaining weight, he might even be able to write you a prescription for these, which would make them much, much more affordable.
With your build, metabolism, and activity level, I would say get used to ice cream, nuts, pizza, chocolate, and fried chicken. Basically, you want "dense" food, stuff that packs a lot of calories per bite.
ReplyDeleteI personally think that "clean eating" and "number of meals" are both overrated. Clean eating is necessary if you're overweight because it's too easy to accidentally overeat when eating "dirty." You're unlikely to have that problem. Eating lots of meals is useful for multiple reasons, but as long as you're never hungry and get enough calories per day, the number of meals really doesn't matter.
Also, carrying around a bunch of Snickers bars or something could be useful.
And keep a log if it really bothers you. Since body recomposition isn't really a goal for you, it's less necessary, but it could still be useful.
Just make sure that when you stop being so active (i.e. stop ultimate frisbee) that you cut down on your caloric intake so you don't become too pudgy. Not adjusting after lifestyle changes is the main reason a lot of former athletes get fat.
Actually, Ensure is not a bad idea, but I think it tastes gross. YMMV.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Brian has a real weight-gaining problem. He's probably just not eating enough.
This is because I know about your nut allergy...otherwise I'd say PB&J all day every day.
ReplyDeleteBrian has a nut allergy?
ReplyDeletePut cheese and mayo on everything.
ReplyDeleteImagine that, me having a good idea and being helpful...so unexpected. Taste it and make up your mind for yourself, we're trying to find ways to make things work, not shoot things down.
ReplyDeleteWow really really helpful comments Shanker and Frank. Who knew the strength blog could be so informative ;-)
ReplyDeleteI kid, I kid.
Yes, I do have a nut allergy. It makes me jealous of all of my friends that eat yogurt and granola like it's their job.
I'll look into ensure, and actually keeping a log might be a good idea. I'll keep it in excel on my local computer and see if I really am just under eating. Maybe logging will help me realize if my diet is terrible.
Dark chocolate, olive oil, and grassfed butter are good for clean bulking. Cheap for amount of calories and not as unhealthy as junk food. The cheapest protein source is actually probably ordering whey concentrate online in bulk.
ReplyDeleteI would hesitate to call isloated whey protein clean. It is the protein equivalent of granulated sugar.
ReplyDeleteI think fancy eggs and fancy whole milk are both clean and cheap. Oatmeal too.